"Let others complain that our age is evil; my complaint is that it is paltry. For it is without passion." (Kierkegaard, Either/Or, 1843)
Yeah, this is going well.
I like Donadoni, but my initial reaction is that this is partly his fault. He set the midfield up in negative fashion by preferring Ambrosini to De Rossi. Cue lots of possession for the Netherlands in the first half hour, culminating in a goal that was, admittedly, offide, but which had been coming anyway, if you're realistic.I still think Italy played well in the second half, but a) Panucci is too slow at full-back for the remaining games, which we need to win now, b) we cannot afford more than one defensive midfielder - either Gattuso or De Rossi. I'd actually drop Gattuso, c) di Natale has not suddenly blossomed into Cristiano Ronaldo, and should not be preferred to Dl Piero or Cassano.And, d) Italy are still the second-best team in the group ontoday;s evidence.
Well sometimes you just need luck and Italy had none and Holland plenty.The first goal really shook them and they found it hard to recover after that in the first half. The linesman was clearly blind as the goal was not the only instance of his allowing RVN to get in on goal in an offside position. Then you had uncharacteristic mistakes by Buffon (not clearing properly and being beaten on his near post)that lead to goals and Toni taking the wrong options in good positions all night really.Agree Richard that Panucci in the center with Grosso and Zambrotta at full-backs is best.
Oh, I remember this feeling of being tortured by gli azzurri. It was nice going a couple years without it.Donadoni got the team selection very wrong, and that is where we lost it. Grosso has to start, obviously. Chiellini has pace that no other defender has and so should start. Aquilani and De Rossi should be either side of Pirlo, and Cassano should start in Di Natale's place.It is a glaring mistake that Inzaghi isn't there. Quagliarella shouldn't be. He's now 5th in line for a position next to Toni! Inzaghi would at least offer something different.I bet Donadoni's relieved now that the FIGC gave him that extension.
...erm, apart from the first goal [which was a stinker], does anybody think Holland played pretty well ?
The Gazzetta gave them 8 out of 10 as a team (and individual 8s to Van Bronckhorst, Sneijder and Van Basten), so yeah, people do.The goal wasn't offside, as I hope everyone has had a chance to realise by now.What troubles me (even though I am not supporting them) is that Donadoni appears to be unwilling to admit that he got the team selection and tactics seriously wrong.
Ursus, if neither we nor for that matter, RVN and the whole Italian defense realised at the time that it was onside it suggests this rule needs some re-examining.
I'm not convinced it needs re-examining, though I agree that it needed to be publicised better.Think that's pretty much taken care of now.It actually came up in a Roma-Fiorentina match last year; the ref disallowed a Mancini goal, and Collina noted two days later that he should have let it stand.
The rule is a fucken joke, let's be honest. If Panucci kept those 2 dutchies onside then I may as well have been playing them onside from my couch!In any case, played shit, copped an ass raping, and Donadoni showed he's not up to it. Embarassing.At least we now know not to expect anything, so if we get anything out of the tournament it will be a nice surprise.
I'm with Ursus on the decision. It was onside, and made all the more hilarious by commentators and pundits lack of knowledge of the rules. Why should Italy gain an advantage from Buffon and Panucci getting in each other's way?I don't think Italy played too badly - they had chances but Luca Toni looked like he was found out for the carthorse he is. I think Donadoni has to start with Del Piero and Cassano up front for the next game. Without Cannavaro at the back though, they may well have to resort to a very un-Italian plan of just trying to out-score the opponents.Seeing how awful the French are though I can still see them getting through to the next stage.
I think the point with the first goal is this, it was designed to stop unsportsmanlike behaviour (ie, stepping out of play to leave someone offside) and has ended up punishing a genuine collision.With this rule in place, surely there is an incentive to try to shove your opponents as far as possible across the touchline in order to leave everyone in an onside position for as long as possible.If Panucci had been lying receiving treatment would he have played everyone onside too?
That's barely an argument, ginkers.1. If you shove anyone on the pitch you're going to give away a free kick.2. If Panucci had been recieving treatment he would have left the field with the referee's consent - which he would then require to return. Where Panuuci was in this incident, he could have returned at any moment. He wasn't injured and was obviously in no rush to return to the field of play as he thought he would play everyone onside.
What if it was a Dutch player who had clattered into Panucci, and not Buffon, and had not committed a foul but had left him injured beyond the byline?Football is a simple game with essentially simple rules which demand that commonsense be the overall guiding principle. It ain't rugby where the ref's take law degrees in order to be able to enforce the rules.
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